OCTOBER 2005: Demos. One of the sure-fire ways we've developed at the Peacedogman site for sniffing out prima donna reviewers is to judge their excitement level for demo reviews. While there's no arguing that we are sometimes besieged with mediocrity, the prevailing viewpoint we seek is that demos represent the classic rock of tomorrow. Any writer that suggests, "I've been writing for awhile, and while I don't mind the occasional demo review..." is typically hit with a shower of eggs that even Sharon Osbourne would find inspiring.

Sadly, it isn't unusual for fresh, new artists to tickle our fancy with a scorching debut demo or privately-released record and then splinter into pieces. While it's never been easy to keep a band together and focused on uncompromising artistic expression (translation: kickass tunes), in 2005, the water couldn't be any muddier. Factors like cd burning, internet / PC technology, and hundreds of tiny sub-labels backed by the big boys can make it seem on the surface that DIY has never been easier. On the other hand, filtering through the flood of music websites and other promotional sources, dealing with club owners to get decent regular gigs, deciphering the cryptic band selection processes of some labels, and determining if an interested label might "live fast, die young" are just a few areas of concern these days.

Frankly, we wanted to help. We decided that we'd make an effort to help out a few nifty upstarts to avoid premature implosion. So we picked three bands with the best demos submitted over the last year, contacted their main songwriters, and decided to have a discussion about the trials and tribulations they are experiencing lately. We'd formulate the discussion into a few key questions, and then submit said questions to some veteran heavy rock gods willing to to help out with the cause and provide some wisdom of the ages to these up-and-comers.

The first discussion is focused on three bands responsible for some very impressive demos. These include Jay Denton of San Francisco's MIDNIGHT BOMBERS, Mike Parks of Delaware's BLACKTHROAT, and Mike Capasso of NYC's MALSTROM.

Part one: Youth and skill.

Marchman: Why don't you guys all give me the thirty-second tour of your bands.

Mike Capasso: Ok, so I guess we are a progressive thrash band, or a thrashy progressive/death band or whatever you'd like to call us. We try to mix the old school influence (MAIDEN/PRIEST/METALLICA/MEGADETH) with the more modern Swedish stuff (OPETH/AT THE GATES/IN FLAMES) I would have to say I am the primary songwriter, though my drummer and bassist assist in the duties. The goal is to make complex, original, and challenging music, though not music that is so "out there" that the average fan gets lost. And you guys?

Jay Denton: MIDNIGHT BOMBERS have a strong skate rock background offset by our over the top Boston native front man Jerry Bushiness. We've been compared to punk bands like THE FREEZE and local favorites AGRESSION. BLACK SABBATH, THE MISFITS and the DESCENDENTS, kind of round out our influences. I think every member of our band is part mastermind, part dumb ass rocker. And that's why we have so much fun, cuz we each excel and lead when the band needs us. Eric will be writing songs on the guitar, Jerry will be writing vocals or putting together our next flyer, I'll be trying to book a show or out putting up flyers. Everyone's involved and as long as we have a drummer who brings some beer to practice, we have a pretty good group going.

Mike Parks: I would describe our music as heavy down-tuned blues metal. Also in there a mix of doom, sludge and rock among other things. An example would be to take a little of SABBATH, some EYEHATEGOD, and DANZIG and that could give you an idea of what we sound like. Some bands we have been compared to are ALABAMA THUNDERPUSSY and ORANGE GOBLIN. I can't really say that there is one main mastermind in the band. We all do our parts in pushing each other forward musically. If things seem to be in disarray, one of us will step in and make sure things turn out right.

Marchman: All of your bands are at demo-level, presently. Let's see the difference in ages.

MP: I am the youngest at 24, Dave (drummer) is 26, Lee (bass) is 29, Tim (other guitar player) is 30, and Shane (vocals) is 31. BLACKTHROAT has been together since Feb 2004. Dave, Shane, and I were in a band before this called BITTER END that was together for 2 years. Me and Dave have been playing in bands together for the past 6 years or so.

JD: Jerry (vocals), Eric (guitar) 30, Jay( bass) 29, Nick (drums) 30. MIDNIGHT BOMBERS have been together a little over two years, but Jerry, Eric and I have been playing together more like 3-4 years.

MC: Myself, our drummer Bill, bassist Alex, and singer Carlos, are all in the 23-25 range. Our recently recruited guitarist Remy is 19, still in college. Me and Bill have been playing together since we were about 15 (went to high school together), Alex has been playing with us for about 4 years (I met him at college), and the other two joined roughly 6 months ago. So the core of our band, and main songwriters are the three of us who have played together the longest.

Marchman: So everybody's been at this for a couple of years. Tell me some of the things you've learned thus far, things you've done well, mistakes you've made, etc.

JD: I've learned that in a band anything is possible, when you have 4 guys with a common goal who really support each other, and push each other, it makes you feel like you can accomplish anything. When you're down all you have to do is show up to practice and there are your best friends. We've gotten each other through thick and thin, and been there for each other when most folks would just look away.

MC: Mike C: Being in a band you learn a lot about your bandmates, much more than just musically. It sounds cliched but a band really is a family in a way. You spend a good amount of time together and work together for a common good. It definitely gives you a completely different sense of friendship than your drinking buddies and such in that you really get a sense for what people like and what they don't, and just how far you can push them and vice versa. None of this is meant in a sexual way of course, so get your mind out of the gutter, haha.

MP: I think one positive thing is it made me a better guitar player. I think by playing in a band you can learn things from the other band members that you might not have known before.

Marchman: Any big mistakes that have turned into learning experiences?

MC: A big mistake? Let's talk about our original demo. We decided we were polished enough (we weren't) to record to a demo, so we went to the "local legend" Moose who me and Bill had recorded with years ago. Sure it was a thrill being in a semi-professional studio, but he knew we were bright-eyed kids, pretty much recording for the first time, and figured we'd be pleased with anything put to tape. So he sort of got us in and got us out. The result was a poorly produced demo which coupled with an average performance (in one take!) made for a pretty average listen. What we should have done was do our research with regards to studio selection, saved up some more money, gotten insanely tight, written more songs so we had multiple songs to choose from, rather than the "this is what we have, let's record" mentality we had, and did it up right. Sorry if I rambled and went off on a tangent, I've been drinking a bit.

Marchman: I'm just assuming that you're all drunk, so don't worry about it.

MC: Cool! Thanks.

MP: I would say the biggest thing I learned about recording is to pay the extra cash and go with someone who knows what there doing. It's definitely worth it in the long run.

JD: As for recording, make sure your drummer is super tight and knows the songs inside and out. There's nothing like a drummer flubbing a change into the chorus to make you sound like shit. Plus as we all know being in the studio with the clock running and everyone separated on headphones, it's way different than playing in your garage etc. Pre-production is essential, even if it's just a boom box tape, it's a great reference for you to lock into the feel of the song and the arrangement, also you'll hear those little mistakes and things to change. As for touring, remember to have fun! Yeah you need to be prepared (I'm not saying you should get drunk) but have fun, that's what people want to do when they go to a show, and if you're in a new town you gotta show them your best side, it's supposed to be a party. Also don't be the one who's always got to be carried back to the van switch it up and give somebody else a chance! Another big point about touring is the fact that the law is out there and some stages are more tolerant of your disobedient rock and roll lifestyle. If you get pulled over drunk, or they find drugs in your van or a weapon, that's it. Your tour is done, the van's impounded and so is your gear. This goes double for Japan, remember Paul McCartney?

MC: Mike C: Oh no. Ok, so we had originally started out as a 5 piece maybe three years ago. Actually we kind of formed as a cover band but me and Bill had always done originals so we decided since we have 5 guys with more or less common musical ground. Why not do our originals? Only problem was our singer, while he was pretty good at doing classic rock/80's metal, he wasn't great when it came to thrash type stuff. He always seemed very stiff and uncomfortable onstage, probably since he came from the least musically- oriented background of the 5 of us. His voice was a bit more high-pitched / power metal than what we were going for. Now aside from the fact that he was one of our college buddies, he was also the cousin of my girlfriend (who I am still with 2 years later!) and we had actually all gotten together through this guy, making the situation that much more awkward for me. Lucky for us he went back to school to get a law degree, making him less available for practice and such. So the 4 of us decided to sit in the apartment one night, throw a few back, and make the infamous phone call. Luckily it was received well, and he completely understood, and we are still good buddies to this day.

Marchman: Ummm...there's no bus ticket in that story.

MC: It could still happen one day. I'll let you know when it does.

JD: Jay: Chicken or fish?? I can't remember if the quote was from Glen Danzig or James Brown, but the point is the same: here's your plane ticket home. We've had our share of drummers over the last 3 years, I mean enough with the Spinal Tap jokes. Most of them we're really great guys and close friends, one guy after a while started being a real control freak and couldn't compromise on anything. I think we sent him an ultimatum email in response to his ultimatum about cover art?? Next day he showed up to pick up his drums, so that was maybe a bad break. We had another situation where the drummer just wasn't cutting the mustard, we were up-front and talked to him about it straightforward and honest, he understood and we're still cool, so I'd say that break went a lot better.

Marchman: Maybe James Brown and Glen Danzig are actually the same person. Unlikely, but possible. Anyway, now that everybody's deep in thought, tell me some of the issues you'd like us to ask the big boys. If you could ask your musical heroes something about your band, what would it be?

MP: Hmmm. A question I have is what is the best way to attract a label. Sending in cd's to them? Touring? I'm guessing it would be both among other things. Another question could be who or what influences them to write the music they do?

JD: I've got a few, but more for us bands just trying to play shows around town. How do you know what shows you should play? Weekdays vs. weekends in town, out of town, etc? How do you get a following? How do you get better shows? When do you need a booker, manager? What kind of demos should you make? Stuff like that.

MC: Great questions. We're actually faced with some of those right now. We're from New York City, which you would think would be a hotbed for metal, or for music in general, but the metal scene here could not be worse. We've had 4 clubs close in the last 6 months (two of which we had shows lined up for), not including CBGB which is still fighting not to be closed. Basically our dilemma now is, do we buy a van so we can play out of the area or do we put our money towards upgrading our equipment with hopes of making a better record with hopes of getting signed and worry about transportation in the future? This has actually been quite a bitter debate in my band. I adamantly would rather stay home and practice and write more complex and intense music in hopes of making the killer record that will put us on the map, while others would rather play shows out of state. This often means playing only for the next band and our girlfriends, though this potentially gets us in the good graces of certain promoters. Another important question I would ask, just out of curiosity, is who writes the music? How does the "main" songwriter (which I assume most any band has) manage to do his part without isolating and stepping on the toes of his bandmates? We're all musicians and we all want to write and get our stuff in, but how do you tell someone in your band his riff sucks and will not work in the song? Wordy, I know. Sorry, again, the drinking...

Marchman: Thanks guys. As luck would have it, we were able to hook up with a few older guys that have all been around the block a few times with this stuff. Hopefully their answers will prove helpful, or at least interesting!

Part 2: Age and treachery.

Scott Weinrich is a man that needs no introduction. As a member of doom heavyweights like SPIRIT CARAVAN, ST. VITUS, and the amazing HIDDEN HAND, Wino has proven to be an amazingly consistent and uncompromising artist for over two decades. He's always been a reliable source of information for the Peacedogman site.

When it comes to creating pummeling tunes with a fierce DIY work ethic, the boys from ANTISEEN put most others to shame. Original guitarist Joe Young was happy to give us the insights and over 20 years of wisdom from 'the only true punk band in the world'.

THE OBLIVIANS were the 90s noble savages of straight-up, drunken fuggit guitar. Eric Friedl (aka Eric Oblivian) has spent the better part of his life promoting evil rock 'n roll debauchery banging out tunes like "Guitar Shop Asshole" and running the excellent Memphis-based label and shop, Goner Records. He's graciously agreed to answer a few of these itching inquiries as well.

Marchman: What is the main force that keeps you going?

Joe Young: Playing live. Nothing beats it, except maybe really great sex. Don't like to practice,and I'm always the first one to cut out from the studio when we are recording. But,playing live is still the biggest kick of all !

Eric Oblivian: Seeing something good happen, having fun, and watching other people have fun. It's easy to get discouraged when you see lots of mediocre music, people with bad attitudes, and all that. If it's fun, why not?

Scott Weinrich: It is something inside. When you are burned out or feel uninspired, at some point I still feel like hitting the road or playing a show. Listening back and the actual in-studio recording experiences are some of the best parts of my life.

Al Jourgensen: For me? Coffee, cigarettes and Bordeaux 2000.

Marchman: Back in the early days, how did you decide whether to get a van and tour the country, or just stay home and make a killer record to get attention? To travel or not to travel, and is a great album a remedy to having to get a touring van??

Eric Oblivian: No idea how to figure that out. I think you need to have good recordings first. Play shows with out of town bands, make friends, have them put on shows for you in their towns, and go from there. Some bands can get famous without touring but not many. Getting in front of a lot of people really does help.

Scott Weinrich: You need them both. There are things you can only learn on the road, and you want to bring your music to other folks and places. But you don't have to live in a big city to be a successful musician.

Joe Young: When Clayton and I started ANTiSEEN (Oct-1983) we had no major plans to get out and travel. We figured we would stay around long enough to make a couple of seven inchers, and that would be our little footnote in the history of punk rock. To date,we have over 50 seven inch singles / ep's and about two dozen LPs. Although many of those are reissues and stuff. Playing live was pretty much limited to The Milestone Club in Charlotte at first, although we did get a few other gigs around the Carolinas as well as Atlanta. But no real 'van tours' the first five years.We always felt that records (or cds today) were the best way to make an impact. And they'd last forever .

Al Jourgensen: I was always of the mind to get your music and sound together before you go traipsing around the country.

Marchman: If you are the main songwriter, how do you do your part without isolating and stepping on the toes of your bandmates? How do you tell them that a riff sucks and won't work in a song?

Al Jourgensen: I collaborate with other musicians based on what they are going to bring to the table, and I know that in advance what their assets are because I've heard their work, or seen them live. If someone's riff sucks, I tell them. I know in my head what I want a song to sound like, and so the end justifies the means.

Wino: I say you absolutely must love and respect your bandmates' stuff or its not real. I'm personally overjoyed if another member brings a killer song to the table. Especially if he sings it! Everyone should have their input (arrangements, etc.) I think Bruce's lyrics are some of the best bar none, and I am serious!

Eric Oblivian : I think that varies according to the people involved, and the band. Some bands try to work it all out democratically- some bands are more of a dictatorship. But even in a dictatorship if people feel like they're not getting a fair chance, they're not going to be very happy in the band. Then of course, there's people that just aren't compatible either in musical terms or not on the same page in terms of what they're after with the band- ie getting girls vs playing good songs, punk pop vs power metal, or whatever.

Joe Young: ANTISEEN has never been a democracy ! In my not-so-humble opinion, that just does not work for a band. Somebody has to be the chief (Clayton) and the others have to be the indians. We do NOT vote on stuff in ANTiSEEN. If something doesn't make me happy, I can get my way if I debate my case well enough to Clayton. In the early days, me and him split the songwriting about 50/50. I came up with most of the riffs,and he'd do the lyrics. The last couple of LP's have had way more input from Sir Barry Hannibal (our drummer) and Doug Canipe (our bassist). I'd say those two guys have written about two thirds of the stuff for our last couple of albums. In most cases, they show up with a finished song (words and music) and teach it to me and Clayton. I've only done a handful of lyrics over the years."Billy the Kid", "Cop Out","Brokedown Blues", and "Q-pid" are the only songs that I have written both words and music for. In a few cases,we do come up with something by just 'jamming' at practice. Throw a few riffs and few words around and most of the time we come up with a cool song together as a group. One of our best was "Animals, Eat 'em". Which we all wrote at practice one night in less than 15 minutes!

Joe Young: In 1989 our bass player at the time (Tom O'Keefe) started doing the booking for us. That was the first time we ever got up to Philly, NYC, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland and other major cities on the East Coast and Midwest. Tom booked us the first 3 or 4 times at CBGB's (which in truth is an overrated dive -- a real dump that doesn't appreciate the bands, unless you're THE RAMONES or BLONDIE or somebody. The Khyber Pass in Philly, and The Milestone in Charlotte are much cooler clubs than CBGB's!) In Philly we met a guy (Todd) who had a small label (Rave) and he also did some booking. He was making calls about getting us over to Europe when we lucked out. A cool booking agent over there got wind and asked Todd if he could book the whole tour. That German agent (Mike) owned copies of our first couple of seven inchers, and really liked them. So he ended up booking our first four tours in Europe . So I guess you could say that those first two indie EP's that we put out with our own money served as our calling card.

Marchman: What is the best way to attract a label? Sending in cds to them? Touring? Or both?

Joe Young: Our label now is TKO out of Orange County CA. They more or less tracked us down because they (Mark Rainey to be specific) really liked our old releases. Most of our full-length albums have been re-released on TKO. But we have never really 'shopped' our stuff around all that much. And when we did (in the early days) we pretty much always got turned down. We did try to work something out with SST once, but they just gave us lip service. We also worked out a deal with Sub Pop and put a single out for them once. But we would not sign the deal until we got out to Seattle for a gig. We made them give us the one thousand dollar advance they promised and then we inked the deal and cut a couple of songs for them when we got home.

Al Jourgensen: Artists need to be more proactive. It's not about attracting a label, it's about a label being attractive to you. Do your research. Investigate labels, check out their roster, find out what their bands say about them. Try to sell your cds online, on tour. Sell a shitload of cds and make sure they get sound scanned so that you come to the label you've chosen in a position of power. Because to labels, it's the bottom line (i.e. soundscan is all that matters).

Eric Oblivian: First get to be a good band. Word of mouth will get to labels just like it gets to fans. CDRs are everywhere- unless someone has a reason to want to check it out, it probably won't stand out or even get listened to.

Marchman: When do you decide if you need a booker, manager and what kind of demos should you make?

Al Jourgensen: You need an agent for touring. An agent protects you and ensures you get paid at the end of the night. A manager? That's another story. Generally they are fucking weasels. I mean what are they going to do? Tell you how to dress? Sound? If you don't know who you are yet, the last thing you need is some frustrated musician weasel telling you what to do. As far as contracts with labels, etc., get a lawyer. When and if you finally hit and there's a million requests, problems, etc. tugging at you every which way but loose i.e. press, merchandise, problems, liaison to the label, then a manager is somewhat a consideration. But do your homework first. You might actually get lucky and not wind up with a scumbag.

Eric Oblivian: Once you get tired of booking shows, get a booker. If you feel like you don't want to talk business with whoever you need to talk business with, or if you feel that a lack of business savvy is holding you back, get a manager. but they're not cheap.

Joe Young: I would not hire a manager until some big record company gave me a truckload of cash and forced us to hire one! We have pretty much been self-managed since day one! A booking agent would be cool, if there was such a thing as a cool booking agent. We've had rotten luck with them in the USA and over the years I'd say 75% of our shows have been booked by us. So we keep that 10 or 15% for ourselves. Mike over in Germany was a blessing however. Our tours over there would have been rough without him. But after our first two trips, we stopped taking our own sound man because the 'house guys' over there were just so good. We also stopped using a tour manager and got my brother to do all the driving. That saved us a lot of money for sure. I'd watch out for anybody who wants to be your manager. Managers are for 'heels' in the pro wrestling game-- not for up-and-coming rock bands!

Well, there you have it. As we suspected, it appears that the changes in technology and development of so many different genres of heavy music have done little to shed light on the common problems that plague new bands starting up. Perhaps some of the brief common-sense responses from Wino, Al, Joe, and Eric will make for good discussion among talented young upstarts that frequent the Peacedoggie website. Personally, I've gotten so caught up in all this talk, I'm ready to go re-learn those barre chords and hup a bunch of Fender amps up an icy back-alley staircase.! Hope you enjoyed this one. 'Til next time!

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